How Healing My Codependency Changed Everything- A Real Conversation With My Husband

This one is a little different. And a little special.

Today I am joined by my husband Rich — the man who has been by my side through all of it. Nearly 34 years together, two recovering alcoholics, kids in addiction, a marriage that almost did not make it, and a healing journey that quietly changed everything between us.

We are talking about the new memoir — Recover Your Soul: A Spiritual Journey of Healing from Addiction, Codependency, and People Pleasing — and what Rich experienced reading our story told through my eyes. Rich wrote the foreword before he had even read the book. His willingness to let me share our real story with the world is one of the greatest gifts he has ever given me. Thank you Rich. 🤍

This is a real honest conversation about what actually shifts in a relationship when one person commits to healing their codependency. Not because it fixes anyone else. But because something changes. Quietly, steadily, and profoundly. We talk about anger, intensity, conflict, and the Jenga tower concept that changed how we handle hard moments together.

If you are doing this work and wondering whether it will make a difference in your relationships — this episode is for you.

📖 Recover Your Soul — available now on Amazon → https://amzn.to/4sDvKeE An honest review means everything — thank you. 🤍

The NEW book is here! Recover Your Soul- A Spiritual Journey of Healing from Addiction, Codependency and People Pleasing Get Your Copy !!!!! 🧡

This podcast is for educational purposes only and is not allied or representative of any organizations or religions, but is based on the opinions and experience of Rev. Rachel Harrison or guests. The host claims no responsibility to any person or entity for any liability, loss, or damage caused or alleged to be caused directly or indirectly as a result of the use, application, or interpretation of the information presented herein. Take what you need and leave the rest.

Transcript

Why The Book Exists

Rev Rachel Harrison 0:30

Today I'm sitting down with my husband Rich and we're talking about the Recover Your Soul book that just came out. And we're talking about how one person's healing, my healing from codependent ways of being in our family, has changed our entire relationship. It's not only changed our relationship, it's changed my entire relationship with everything that I see in the world. It's changed how I feel in my own skin. And there can be movement in relationships if both people are willing and wanting to move forward and to improve themselves and to learn from their soul's journey. Enjoy the episode. Welcome to the Recover Your Soul Podcast and Community, a spiritual path to a happy and healthy life. My name is Reverend Rachel Harrison. I started Recover Your Soul after having profound changes in my life from my recovery of alcoholism, codependency, people pleasing, and control addiction. I was guided to share the tools and principles of spirituality and the recovery soul process to help others transform their lives as mine was transformed. For us to overcome external circumstances, we need to turn the attention to ourselves, focusing on our interchange and healing. Positive results in our lives will follow. Welcome to the Recover Your Soul Podcast. It's Rev Rachel, and I am joined today by my husband of, I think we're coming on 34 years together, Rich, joining me on the podcast.

SPEAKER_01 1:56

This is the first time she's ever put me on camera, so I'll do my best.

Rev Rachel Harrison 2:01

If you're watching on YouTube, here we are in person. And if you are listening audio, you can go check that out. But we are at book launch time, Recover Your Soul Pay, Spiritual Journey of Healing from Addiction, Codependency, and People Pleasing. And I wanted to bring Rich on. It's been a minute since he was on an actual podcast. I think it's been probably over a year since you've done one on the main podcast.

SPEAKER_01 2:25

Time flies. Doesn't feel like a year since the last one, but yes.

Rev Rachel Harrison 2:29

So what I wanted to talk about today is to talk about the Recover Your Soul book, which is actually on Amazon. I'm really excited about this book because it's really our book. It's the journey of our time together, our healing together, our complexity of relationship and everything that we've been through. And I just wanted to bring you on to have a little discussion about how you feel about the book being out in the world first, and also how you're feeling about it in terms of an explanation of our lives together, our journey together. I would just love to hear about your experience.

SPEAKER_01 3:11

I think one of the top things I can say and share is that the way you have written about our family, a part of me was like, Well, well, I think it's accurate. I mean, it's pretty simple. And not only is it accurate, but you don't go super deep into overtelling things. And at the same time, you hit really well on not only how it felt, like for me, reading, I will read it uh like I'm reading my own story. And then I also try to read it as if I'm I'm anybody else in the general population. And I'm liking it from both from both sides. I think it's a really good um portrayal of what we went through. I think it it shows how hard it was, and it also shows how much opportunity there is to go through it and to learn and to come out even better on the back side.

Rev Rachel Harrison 4:11

Well, it means a lot to me that you do think that it's an accurate portrayal because one of the things I say early in the book is this is really this is my my experience. So it's not necessarily what happened, but it's how it felt to me. And of course, there's facts around it. And this morning you were reading it and saying there was a particular section where I talked about when we made the agreement to not talk about Alex and fight about him anymore, and we had no idea what to talk about.

SPEAKER_01 4:41

And it came back like I just plopped right back into that slot of time and how it felt and how, and no, at the same time, I went right back to it, and I was sitting here in the future laughing at how accurate that was because for like a year we had nothing to talk about.

Rev Rachel Harrison 4:59

We had no idea what to talk about because we'd just been fighting about the boys for so many years.

SPEAKER_01 5:04

I think the parents out there who have kids that are struggling are totally gonna relate to hopefully laugh, laugh about it. But if you're in it, read the book, it'll help.

How Healing Ripples Through Family

Rev Rachel Harrison 5:16

So, one of the things that I really appreciated about the forward that you wrote, and you wrote the forward before you read the book, that you acknowledge that this work that I've done in my own healing has affected change within our family and within our relationship. And I don't want to ever encourage somebody to do the work because it is going to fix all those things, because there's no guarantee of what's going to happen outside of that. But I always say I can promise you that there will be change within yourself. And in that change, there will be positive change around you. But will you talk a little bit around what you feel like, especially in the last couple of years, has been the shifts in our family?

SPEAKER_01 6:02

So when I talk about this, I find I need to be careful to not say how much how far you've come and how awesome you are now compared to how you were. Because she hates that.

Rev Rachel Harrison 6:18

I generally hate it because I love hearing you say nice things about me. But when you caveat it at the end with saying so much better than it used to be, then it sort of takes away the thing that in this particular setting, this is the appropriate setting.

SPEAKER_01 6:33

And that's exactly it. That we've been through these things together. We had buttons that were pushed on, and that we learned to lock out those buttons all darn near, you know. But that is probably one of the biggest things that I could talk about, which is um first of all, I was Mr. Spirituality or Mr. Religious when we came together. And I and I personally love how there's been this meeting in the middle into unity and to exploring together and exploring uh just not only how we exist on this planet, but how we exist together, and then how we could continue to be together with everything we had gone through. And um raising kids for us was wicked, wicked challenging. And the whole book is about this, this where you went steadily and steadily and steadily deeper and deeper and deeper. And um, as you did that, I'm I talk about a beneficiary. It's just the ultimate expression of the beneficiary was was me, because Rachel is everything to me, she's my one person, and uh that's why I wouldn't let go when we separated. And um there's always one time I get I get emotional, there was. Um and the change the the not they're not these literal deliberate changes, but as you studied and studied and studied and and uh opened yourself and turned within and worked and worked and worked, the things that I would have complained about in the past just started to shift. And I'm only talking about Rachel's side right now, and then likewise on my side, um, I'm not the perfectly sober one, but I'll tell you what, I'm 99.9% sober. I am. I've just had those tests. I go, I miss it. Does it do anything for me? Oh, not at all. That's basically what has been going on for me. But on my side of the coin, we would sit together and all of her teachings were being shared with me. And I was being a sponge, and by osmosis, by just being in the presence of Rachel, I could feel it like a like an energy, like an aura, just sharing between us. And I've done my own style of work and I've had extraordinary discoveries of how I lived such an alcoholic life. It just doesn't occur to you. I was an alcoholic, similar to my brother or whoever else you want to talk about.

Rev Rachel Harrison 9:26

Or your parents, your demands.

SPEAKER_01 9:29

Almost the whole way through. And it's like you're living in an alternate reality when you get this far and you can reflect. And that was me. I just, it's it's just extraordinary. And um, I'm having trouble with my memory. Um, and yet I don't have to remember every last detail. Maybe some of that trauma I have I've suppressed or whatever it is. But I grew up in a ton of chaos, I grew up in a ton of alcoholism. And as Rachel studied and studied and studied, and the fruit of which is in this almost this manual, this autobiographical pathway, I healed. I got so much better. I was so much more able to reflect on how I walk through a day and through the world. And where I used to be called out for being angry, and I would defend and go, Hell no, I'm a I'm an energetic, uh uh thrill-seeking alcoholic, right? Um, well, that's what I was, and I and I was angry. And I'm a different, I'm I'm I think, am I am I a different person?

Rev Rachel Harrison 10:40

You were like 90% a different person. Can I lean into your own anger for a second?

SPEAKER_01 10:44

Yeah, yeah.

Anger Intensity And The Pause

Rev Rachel Harrison 10:45

So I think one of the I can't remember if it's in the book or not about the therapist that said you were angry. Pretty sure I put that in there. Yeah. So we had our coach who was the first person who just didn't sit there and kind of let us argue with each other for an hour or whatever we would pay for that, but never got anywhere. Jeff was the first person that sort of called us both out and called you out as being angry and me out as being codependent.

SPEAKER_01 11:10

And I got angry, and I got angry when he called me out for being angry.

Rev Rachel Harrison 11:15

So if if I've shifted over the years of not being controlling and you've shifted it not being as angry or intense, talk to me about the intensity. Like what awarenesses have you had around that intensity that we both continue to work on ourselves. We both recently have been affronted with some like reminders of our shortcomings out in the wilds, but we're handling it in a way that I think is so beautiful because we're curious and we're interested and we are reflecting with each other, and we're using the recover your soul process to want to grow and learn from it. So, what have you learned about that intensity and anger that's been beneficial in your process of healing?

SPEAKER_01 12:34

Let me start with a crutch and just talk about my favorite, my my homie Eckhart Tolle and the Bible for me, which is the power of now. So, my intensity is like you think you're clear on something. I'm not even going to describe it as you think you're you're right. But there's also that saying, Do you want to be right or do you want to be happy? Do you want to be right or do you want to be at peace? So, sort of in that genre is like you really truly believe something, you think you're believing it right here. And then the next person doesn't see it that way. That's almost as simple as that. And um in my family, especially, it was just like heated battles over whatever, whatever it was fueled by the kerosene of alcohol, and it was just pure insanity. So if you go from that to where you start to calm down and and gain some awareness, awareness and some consciousness, and then back to Eckhart, who describes it as the me behind the me, um, your consciousness viewing yourself grinding through through your mind. If you can just step out of the situation, view it, pause, calm down, see the silliness in yourself and the other person and the situation. All of a sudden, the whole thing, it's not that it doesn't matter anymore. Sometimes I'll just say, none of this even matters if if I need that, just to be able to step into that special spot where you can see the situation for what it is and not have to be right.

Rev Rachel Harrison 14:19

Right.

SPEAKER_01 14:20

And not have to battle and not have to compete because there's something about me like in the dog world, dogs are like, who are you? And then bark at me. I've got something that triggers. I think I got a thing that triggers people. I don't know what it is. It's like um, I said to my coworkers the other day, I said, I have the mightest touch with art and material, and and but I do not have the mightest touch with people. And um I get into situations that I think have this competitive touch to them, which then is that tiny little spark that now you're in a situation. And then at that point, if I believe too much that I need to present my case or be right or or complain about it, that's just the freaking what do you what's your word for the ego?

Rev Rachel Harrison 15:14

Identity.

SPEAKER_01 15:15

That's just an identity spiral, it's just a coil of bullshit. If sorry. And in the last couple of weeks at my brand new job, I found myself in a very sticky situation. And I got to practice with nine other guys to just be calm and be kind. And that was not the way that I was brought up in.

Fixing Versus Presence And Trust

Rev Rachel Harrison 15:38

Yeah, I mean, I just think it's amazing how you can talk about it right now and look at it with such introspection and such clarity and let go of those old belief systems and those old protective mechanisms and witness them and see them, right? Because if I look at myself eight years ago in brand new sobriety, how I was in a situation that I worked at that was a repetition of my competition and complexity that I was having with the women that I worked with, that was a repeating pattern that did not go well on a regular basis, right? And how I didn't handle it well. And I'm looking at you in this situation where you could have handled it in ways that were not healthy, and the capacity that you have to be present in these other guys and be dealing with it so um really beautifully and uh authentically, is a testament to the work that we've been doing together and that you've been allowing yourself to soak in through this osmosis. What I wanted to also um reflect on, if I could remember what I was gonna talk about. Oh, yeah, what I was gonna talk about that I wanted to bring up is for a long time, this being right thing. I was always trying to just help you be less stressed, right? I I was just doing my attempt at calming your intensity, and you took it as me trying to fix or change or want you to be different, which is very much what it felt like, yes. Right. And because I was doing it from the unhealthy angle. And what I wanted to reflect on is that in the last couple weeks, while you've been dealing with this situation and and allowing it to process and allowing yourself to take it in, and you and I have been talking, you've reflected back how much you appreciate my being present for you and talking to you. And it has felt different to you. And so I'm wondering if there's a way to describe that for those people who are in the community who are trying to figure out how to connect with their loved ones from this more healthy space, because you're hearing me in a way that was what I always wanted, right? But it's because I'm presenting it in a different way.

SPEAKER_01 18:08

I hope I can do a decent job with this one. Um because let's see, for starters, there was a huge fixer in in Rachel. Um and it and and it it was intense, and all of your work has been a huge part of it has been exactly that. It's like the the con the control or trying to fix and the code of penance and the way you came in before with that was tough. It was unrelatable. I felt I felt like I I was never I did you feel judged?

Rev Rachel Harrison 18:49

Did it feel like you were being judged? Or I felt like I was dismissed.

SPEAKER_01 18:52

Remember, we uh a while back when I did my steps, dismissed because you had a better way.

Rev Rachel Harrison 18:59

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 19:00

So I would I would try to share with Rachel and and it would just kind of slide over here, and then you'd come in with a million ways that I could or should.

Rev Rachel Harrison 19:12

So how was that?

SPEAKER_01 19:13

If because I I think I'm only referring to the past at this point, yeah.

Rev Rachel Harrison 19:16

Because I think it's such an interesting topic because we always have insight or opinions, right? I wonder if the safety that we've worked really hard on both sides to to establish in our relationship, which was what was lost, we both felt unsafe, allows everything to sort of have more capacity to be present with because I'm still giving you my opinions.

SPEAKER_01 19:43

I agree, and that's where I was leading with this. You know me, I'm I I'm a long storyteller. So as we come along, um we gain trust, we gain tools. Um, I'll go back and say it again. We gain trust. We got to a place where we didn't we didn't trust each other. Uh we didn't trust what each other was saying. And that's what I felt from you. I'm still gonna kind of kind of talk about how hard it was because that's the thing, is when we we talked about it earlier. When I say, Oh, you're you you're your uh your sense of humor is so much better than it used to be. She's like, What? But I'm the kind of person that loves to see how how effed up it was and all the steps and where we're at now, that just speaks to me. That just makes me feel like I'm evolving. So, yes, it I think all of those things, it's like cooking a meal on the high end, the shows you like to watch about these chefs. You can cook something and it can be good. But if you've spent enough time, if you've done your 10,000 hours, we got the trust, we got the communication, we got the tools, we got the vulnerability, we've got the self-um awareness, awareness. And right in there is that magic that I'm not even sure I could properly describe. But the funny part is that we used to think that we didn't even think the same, that we're we weren't even on the same planet, that that I couldn't even get you to understand the point. I was even just barely trying to describe it, it was that bad. Now it's completely 180. And the best part for me, and I hope I can just throw this into the screen, is that it can be a simple thing, a medium thing, or even an intense thing. And now I speak and I know you hear it, and you actually agree with me. There's like this, like, oh yeah, I can see that now, and I can see why you're feeling that way, and I can see what you think about that. And it's like you feel like you have a teammate now instead of instead of being on two sides of the of the of the soccer field.

Rev Rachel Harrison 21:57

I feel like one of the things that I recognize in myself was it was hard for me to hear you be frustrated.

SPEAKER_02 22:03

Yes.

Rev Rachel Harrison 22:04

And so I was trying to immediately stop the frustration.

SPEAKER_02 22:07

Yes.

Rev Rachel Harrison 22:08

And so I I almost didn't know how to um hear the frustration and give you validation on it because what I really wanted was to give you a fix so that it would go away because your frustration made me uncomfortable.

SPEAKER_02 22:22

Yes.

Rev Rachel Harrison 22:22

And now I recognize that your frustration is your frustration, yes, and you're entitled to your frustration, and it's now you can help me with it. And it's not my responsibility to fix you if you're frustrated, and I have compassion for you when you feel frustrated, which somehow is doing so much less and having so much more impact. Right.

SPEAKER_01 22:39

Yeah.

Rev Rachel Harrison 22:39

And so, you know, part of that is that we both have our things that we enjoy doing that have a lot of separation, right? So it's like if you're in a space where you're feeling a certain way, I'm less likely to follow you around and try to like. Make you not feel that way than I am to remove myself from the situation and just let you. It's like I realize it's not a reflection of me somehow that I've failed somehow because you're having a hard day.

Relationship Jenga And Repair Talks

SPEAKER_01 23:12

Well, that's very much in your book.

Rev Rachel Harrison 23:14

And it's the whole family, right? But then in the end, what I think is so interesting is you have less hard days. Yeah. And you have frustrations, but you have more capacity to witness your own frustration and have tools that you never had before to deal with them.

SPEAKER_01 23:33

It makes it last five minutes versus five days. Right. I mean, that's the relief you you can you can receive. Yes.

Rev Rachel Harrison 23:42

So the last thing I want is to talk about just because I think it's an interesting tool. I've talked about it in a couple podcasts, but you named it relationship Jenga. So I I think it's such a good tool to have wording for. So one of the things that happens with us sometimes is like um is a little something will happen, but we don't address it right away. And so Rich described that as being a Jenga piece gets pulled out.

SPEAKER_01 24:11

I'm gonna have to go hard on you here to truly express where it came from. Um back in the hard days, uh, it would just build and build and build and build. And I'm I'm talking about for Rachel, for you. And I'm over here like la la la la la, whatever my defense mechanisms were, which was probably like, oh, that's hard, but that's okay. Let's go have a drink and have fun and it'll go away. Maybe that was me. Okay. Um, but by the time Rachel would lose it and just need to yell at me, which I wish she would do way earlier, it was like pulling that piece off the bottom, and that that stack, I can't even get it on the screen. That stack here, about like that. Okay, twice, twice as high as that.

SPEAKER_02 24:59

Just all over.

SPEAKER_01 25:01

Is that okay? That's about how it went. And one day that's how I described it. I was like, I mean, come on. It's like this tower, and boom, it finally goes. I've read about this in the book, and I I know people will relate to this. It doesn't mean the person does something and you get hard triggered, and you gotta just go and and spout back at it right there. I mean, that would be another not great way of approaching it, but it would go on for a long time, and then that one little that one little piece would come out.

Rev Rachel Harrison 25:37

I liked the way that it was described because it's helped me in my own mind to um work on the conflict in a different way because I'm so I'm so conflict avoidant that I don't really want to deal with it. And so pulling out a piece and pretending like that piece is fine was my way of dealing with it. But now that I can see that if you keep pulling pieces out, that eventually it's all going to come crashing down. And one of the main things that I always am working on and sharing and hoping that people get is most of what we're working on is within ourselves because we're just always in reaction to somebody else that's really our own thing. And yet there's real things happening. Like if you're in a particular mood, it is going to affect me. You know, it's not like I can just ignore you completely or pretend that you're not feeling however you're feeling. Same with me. Sometimes I'm having a hard day. It's not like you can just pretend like I'm perfectly fine. But when there's a cut, when something happens, or when you say something that that smarts or hurts, I think I was so afraid to talk about it in the past rather than just to kind of be like, ouch, you know, that that kind of hurt. Um, and then have a little process moment with it and be able to address it in those times so that we're putting the Jenga piece back in and that and it stays more stable rather than having a big blow up.

SPEAKER_01 27:09

And it just automatically got so much easier for each one of us to come from each side with that. And like now, when I'll say something and I could have said it better, but it's just as simple as that. I can feel it. And I know you felt it. And we're not, we don't go like this, and and we don't get as mad in the front end, and we don't hold it too long in the back end, and everything just gets better. The the ability to have life not be perfect and stay joyous and happy is is so much easier.

Rev Rachel Harrison 27:51

One of the things that you do that I really appreciate is after you've had one of those things, and you'll come and find me and you'll say, I'm sorry, I I could have said that nicer. And that means a lot to me, you know. And I think I've gotten better at saying I'm sorry too, since that was something that I never liked to say.

Letting The Story Be Told

SPEAKER_01 28:08

What I've realized is on this first ever video podcast for me, I've been talking about you the whole time. Like, oh, she used to do this, and she used to do that, she used to do this.

Rev Rachel Harrison 28:17

It's like we were in therapy. This is like when we were in therapy, and I would just point at you.

SPEAKER_01 28:21

I hope it's not coming off that way. Uh yes, uh, Rachel, you you you were not um a um a big user of the two words, I'm sorry, for a long, long, long time. Some people overuse it and it means nothing, right? So there's there's definitely the balance there.

Rev Rachel Harrison 28:42

Well, I'm excited for the book to get in the hands of more people. And one of the things that I want to say is how much I appreciate your willingness to let me write our story. And I I've told the story before that I was working on the book and I really had this awareness that it was it could be hard for you to have it. And I came in and I said, maybe I shouldn't do this because I don't want, I don't want to hurt you. And you said, Don't you worry about me, you do this. And that meant everything to me, you know, that you would support me like that.

SPEAKER_01 29:19

I exposed myself just in the forward, and this is our life, and I hope it helps other people, and I know it will, you know.

Rev Rachel Harrison 29:27

Well, we're certainly not the only people who have struggled in marriage or had complicated raising children here saying that's the truth.

unknown 29:36

Yeah.

Rev Rachel Harrison 29:36

We got together in July of 1992, so we're about to celebrate 34 years together, and um, I have a photo gallery on the book resource page that shows shows all those years. And man, we were young and naive and innocent in our early 20s when we first met.

SPEAKER_01 29:59

So check those out because I I like that when you get those visual aids to a good book. So yeah.

Community Invites And Ways To Join

Rev Rachel Harrison 30:05

We've been through it, and I I believe strongly in our soul journeys, and that um one of the beauties in our relationship, I'm never saying that everybody should stay together. I don't, I don't think that's um that's my messaging ever. I think that in each relationship, it's about really looking at your own soul and looking at the potential for growth and healing. And I'm grateful that you were invested in that for us and for yourself. And um, I say all the time that I get to be who I am, and you do that for me. You give me space to explore and be myself, and you encourage me on a regular basis to really stretch and do that. And and I hope I do the same for you.

SPEAKER_01 30:52

Yeah, we've come a long, long ways. Thank you for your work, my wife. And uh thanks for, I don't know if I should thank you for putting me on camera, but yeah. Here we are.

Rev Rachel Harrison 31:04

Here we are. All right, thank you so much, and we'll do some more together. And I just appreciate it. So thank you. Thanks, Sonia. Love you.

SPEAKER_01 31:14

Love you too.

Rev Rachel Harrison 31:16

Until next time. Thank you for trusting me to be part of your journey to recover your soul and being part of this incredible community. There's so much going on, and I hope that you'll get involved. First, I want to invite you to our free first Monday of every month support group from 6 to 7 p.m. Mount Time on Zoom. This is where we come together in community, meet in small groups, and connect on our Recover Your Soul journey. I'm so excited to announce that on April 13th, the long-awaited Recover Your Soul memoir around my walking the steps that created the Recover Your Soul process and how it profoundly changed my life from codependence, addiction, people pleasing, an unhappy marriage, an unhappy life to what I am living today, peaceful, happy, and free. I also would love to invite you to join me for the Friday Recover Your Soul bonus podcast, where you get an additional episode taking a deeper dive into this amazing restorative process. You can become a Patreon member or an Apple Podcast subscriber to receive over 200 past episodes and get a new episode every Friday. Free members on Patreon have access to listen to new episodes for the first week. And of course, I'm on social media and I'd love to have you follow Recover Your Soul on Instagram and Facebook and even join the private RecoverYour Soul Facebook community. If you enjoy Rev Rachel's meditations, I encourage you to follow me on InsightTiver for an entire catalog of guided spiritual meditations. All of this, along with ways that you too can work the Recover Your Soul nine-step process to healing and awakening, can be found on the website recoveryoursoul.net. And lastly, thank you for sharing this podcast and community with any friends or family that you think it would support their spiritual journey to healing and awakening. And those five stars and great reviews help us spread the word and increase the algorithm so we can reach even more people. Together, we can do the work that will recover your soul.